Orford Ness is a remarkable landscape, a shingle spit on the coast of Suffolk. It was used through the 20th century as a secret site for military testing but now it's owned by the National Trust. Madeleine Bunting visits the Ness with Robert MacFarlane, an author often associated with more heroic landscapes.

MacFarlane explains what a difficult landscape it is for an author to interpret. He spent too long, he says, trying to make sense of it, trying to make it yield to him.

The podcast includes new music from double bass player Arnie Somogyi who is collaborating with MacFarlane on a new piece about Orford Ness called Untrue Island initiated and developed by Commissions East and the National Trust. We hear some of MacFarlane's new writing for the commission as well as field recordings by sound recordist Chris Watson.