The Herd’s heading back on the road to mark 20 years of The Sun Never Sets. What’s your secret weapon for surviving touring?
Clean socks after the gig. Dave from Resin Dogs used to put it on his rider when I was still a ratty teen and not really knowing what touring was like. And he was like, “Yeah, man, just put clean socks on your rider. You can put them on after the gig.”
The group’s always been known for its political content. What’s one of your favourite protest songs?
Killing in the Name [by Rage Against the Machine] is a really good example of a political song that speaks to people’s energy. You can be a weird rightwing incel and feel like that song resonates with you, but actually, it’s a really staunch activist song that is uncompromising. I think that’s an amazing thing, to be able to achieve both things, where you can scale a song but pack a punch. And also accept that no matter how much you try, some people are going to take it and distort it and carry it into the place that they feel comfortable about, where it’s safer for them.
What animal do you most relate to and why?
I reckon I would answer differently every year, but right now I’m like those sea otters that hold on to each other by their paws so that they can go to sleep and not drift away from each other. It’s not cute, it’s literally survival. A beautiful symbol of connection.
What’s the best lesson you learned from someone you’ve worked with?
Kenny from the Herd, AKA Traksewt, taught me at a young age that you’ve got to choose your battles, and he did it by example. There was a young group we were working with who were really aggressive and would threaten him when things didn’t quite go right, and so he turned around and gave them all their masters and sent them on their way.
I grew up pretty confrontational, and I would love to walk into fights. I was from hip-hop culture, where walking into the fights was generally the 101 of how to resolve things. And I was taking on responsibility for the Elefant Traks label at that time, and it taught me that I didn’t have to walk into all the fights … it really changed the trajectory of how I approached problem-solving.
What’s the most chaotic thing that’s ever happened to the Herd on stage?
There was a 4ZZZ benefit in Brisbane. It starts raining. The stage is slightly outdoors so the water is coming in. The rain keeps going. We keep performing. The cables underneath the stage are all starting to be underwater. We’re rapping, looking at each other, wondering, is this safe? Should we keep on going? We finish the set, the gig’s officially canned, there’s electrocution issues.
It really speaks to a time when it was a bit more devil-may-care. There’s a lot of instances from touring – especially in the 2000s era – where, yeah, it’s pretty good knowing we didn’t die.
What album do you always return to, and why?
Low End Theory by A Tribe Called Quest, just because it’s one of those enduring records that has meant something to me every decade in my life – in my teens, 20s, 30s, 40s. Low End Theory was a counterpoint to all the rap I’d been exposed to; it was really jazzy, and it had this friendly, welcoming attitude, but it was still pretty badass, and spoke to New York rap culture and street culture. There’s a chemistry between all the artists on that record. It’s just not pop rap at all – like there’s no big catchy hooks. It’s a record I wish I could make. I could never make it.
What’s your most controversial pop culture opinion?
Sequels and prequels and reboots have a bad reputation, but I have a very strong view that a new Gremlins should be made with an arthouse director – like Bong Joon Ho or Julia Ducournau; someone who makes these kind of weird, dark movies that have that humour that is really gritty and slightly evil. And I think that Gizmo should actually lead the Gremlins, rather than betraying them, this time. I think Gizmo needs to take a good hard look at it himself in this one.
What’s been your most cringeworthy run-in with a celebrity?
It was on the Cannot Buy My Soul tour [in 2009] that was a tribute to Kev Carmody and Paul Kelly and their creative relationship. All of these luminaries of mainstream and alternative Australian music at that point – like Tex Perkins, Missy Higgins – came in and did a cover, and they toured it around the country. The first show was at the Riverstage in Brisbane and I was backstage in the green room and everyone was there. I sidled up to Paul Kelly and just as I say something like “Paul, how do you write songs?” everything went quiet. And Paul’s just sitting there, politely responding, and I look around and everybody’s seeing me do that thing where you ask The Master this sort of fawning, awkward question. I had bluffed my way into that moment just to have it all come crashing down.
Who’s your favourite writer?
As a songwriter, I always think about authors. I feel like authors have the space to do justice to the word that musicians could never do, even songwriters. And songwriters have the limitation of melody, so they have to work within the confines of that structure. One person who probably crosses those two boundaries is Kae Tempest.
In fact, I wrote a song [10 years ago] – a cover of [Meg Mac’s] Roll Up Your Sleeves – and I was trying to channel Kae Tempest and the way that he creates imagery in his words. To me, the greatest thing I could ever do as a writer is somehow even just [approach] that beauty of assembling words in such a way that leaves you feeling something.
Who’s the most underrated rapper in Australia right now?
Kayeonwun – he used to be known as Khi’leb. He’s from Brisbane, he’s a crazy rapper, unbelievable. His family is Ghanaian, his dad is a pastor and his mum runs a food distribution service around the suburbs of Brisbane for families in need. I first came across Kayeonwun when he was 16, and I ended up working on a song with him a few years back. Artists need breakthrough moments to take them from one stage to the next and he hasn’t had that yet, but he’ll be ready when that moment comes.
The Herd: The Sun Never Sets 20th anniversary is touring interstate and regionally through February.
