Laura Snapes 

Trevor Horn on Grace Jones, smoking with Malcolm McLaren, and why video didn’t kill the radio star

The 80s hitmaker and creative force behind the Buggles, the Art of Noise and many others answered questions on everything from ABC to ZTT
  
  

The Trevor Horn Band performs on stage at the Cornbury festival in Oxford, in July 2019.
The man who invented the sound of the 80s … Trevor Horn. Photograph: C Brandon/Redferns

User avatar for trevor_horn Guardian contributor

Interesting questions! Made me really think. Thanks very much.

Getting Grace Jones to the studio was tough! But once we got her there she was wonderful


AlexNeedham
asks:

Slave to the Rhythm is a classic. What was Grace Jones like to work with, would you ever make another record with her, and whose idea was it to have an album that was one song done eight ways?

User avatar for trevor_horn Guardian contributor

Grace was great. Working with her's always good. Getting her to the studio was tough! But once we got her there, she was wonderful. Slave to the Rhythm, we really sprung it on her. She'd done a totally different version of it with us, the first session, but then we got her in in New York and it was totally different. She was like, "I see what you've done, I can feel it!" It was the end of a long day of work, she sang it sitting down. I'd work with her again like a shot.

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BillyBudd asks:

What are your thoughts on the production of ABC’s Beauty Stab (their follow up to Lexicon) and how different would it have sounded if you had produced it?

User avatar for trevor_horn Guardian contributor

That's a leading question because it was produced by my engineer, Gary. I liked the production on Beauty Stab. If Beauty Stab wasn't as successful as Lexicon of Love, it was still a solidly respectable second album and there was nothing wrong with the production. If it didn't sell as many, that would be for a lot of reasons, not necessarily to do with the production. I think it would have sounded quite similar if I had done it.


Xoxarle
asks:

Do you regret circumstances preventing you from having a crack at Propaganda’s A Secret Wish, a ZTT highpoint, and how different would it have sounded if you and not Steve Lipson had manned the mixing desk?

User avatar for trevor_horn Guardian contributor

I think Steve did a great job of that record. I think that if I'd have done it, I don't know if it would have been more orchestral. Do you know, I never think these thoughts, really. The Propaganda album, if you listen to Michael Jackson's Bad album, you hear a lot of the inspiration on that come from what Steve did on Secret Wish.


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GregRandall asks:

Are you still in touch with Paul Morley and how much did he contribute to the mid 80s ZZT image? It was his album sleeve texts, especially on Into Battle With the Art of Noise and Propaganda’s Secret Wish that turned me on to “art”. Regards.

User avatar for trevor_horn Guardian contributor

I still talk to him sometimes!

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DWFan1 asks:

What’s your favourite Pixar film?

User avatar for trevor_horn Guardian contributor

I liked The Incredibles.

chrisgriff asks:

What happened with Lee Griffiths? He was tipped for wonderful things in the late 90s, then he was supposed to have an album produced by you. But he disappeared.

User avatar for trevor_horn Guardian contributor

I produced his album. At the time, no one was interested. I still think he's a brilliant singer and a really good writer. I don't think he's disappeared, I think he's still playing.

Tatu – They were nice girls. We got on really well. They both could play the piano quite brilliantly

AlexNorris asks:

You produced two of the best pop singles of the 2000s in t.A.T.u.’s All the Things She Said and Not Gonna Get Us – how did you end up getting involved with the group and how did you find working with Yulia and Lena?

User avatar for trevor_horn Guardian contributor

I went to see Jimmy Iovine in America to see if there was anybody that needed a producer. After the meeting, the head of marketing called me into a side room and played me Not Gonna Get Us, the Russian version, and All the Things She Said (the Russian version). He said they wanted to see if they could cross it over. He asked me if I'd remake two tracks for them. I was intrigued by the idea but they obviously tried a couple of people after that, before me. A couple of DJs remixing them, but it didn't work. I don't think they had much money. Interestingly enough, I thought when they offered it to me, I thought I was gonna get the multitrack from the Russian version but they wouldn't give it to me, so I had to completely remake the record. Writing the lyric for that song was one of the most difficult things I ever had to do. It took me a long time to figure it out. I had a translation of the Russian lyric, and it was like, "yes I'm mad! I am on fire for her!" I didn't have a clue. And I also knew they couldn't sing English very well. So I tried to write the lyric as if it was a translation of something. "I'm in serious shit, I feel totally lost" - and it worked! Not immediately - we spent two weeks working on their voices on that track. And there was no budget so I had to play all the instruments myself. My late wife said, you had all these bloody guitars, time to put them to use! I ended up quite enjoying it really. Sometimes records come out well, sometimes they don't, but that one did. There was one point where we gave up for a day - we thought, we've blown it. I remember having a day off then going back to the Russian version and thinking, I've made a mistake somewhere. I found the way that the Russian version repeated certain words was really clever, so I changed mine the same way - "running through my head, running through my head". By then, the girls had gone back to Russia. But luckily we got the first access to some software that allowed us to change the pitch of their voices.

Not Gonna Get Us - I had to write the Russian lyrics out phonetically. It's difficult, man, it really is tricky. I have to be honest, when I finished it, a guy said to me, what do you think? And I said, if you listen past the first chorus, it's a really good record. I was being my normal doom-laden self. I forgot about it then got a call and said it's No 1. Then we sold 7, 8m albums really fast.

They were nice girls. We got on really well. They both could play the piano quite brilliantly. It made me think in a lot of ways, the Russians have a lot of culture that we don't have. The Russian guy was awful, I didn't like the manager. He said, "I've got two girls, trying to get them to sing in English" – that's not a situation where you're going to start being rough with people, but he would say to me, "you're too kind, you're too gentle". I was like, if you think you can do better... You'd do an hour, have a break, do another hour - he said, "you need to push!" I said, "go ahead if you want". He went in, within five minutes, both of them were crying. So I kicked him out. There's no shortcut, you can't bully people. So I didn't like him. But I liked the girls. They were both bumming cigarettes off me. They were 18, the manager didn't want them to be seen smoking. They were my daughters' age. Nice girls.

The lesbian thing, they told me, we're not really "career lesbians". But it wasn't of any interest to me. I wrote the lyric of the song, the whole thing about "all the things she said", the original Russian one, was about two girls that had a crush on each other and didn't know whether they wanted to act on it. So I wrote it like that. That's what it was about.

User avatar for trevor_horn Guardian contributor

I tell you what was amazing, was when Russia hosted Eurovision - they played an acoustic version of Not Gonna Get Us singing in English lyrics. That was amazing, fuck me. This is their thing and they're singing my words.

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25aubrey asks:

Just looking at the album cover of English Garden, which incidentally is still in perfect condition after 40 years, and what I’d like to ask is, which palm house was it shot in? I may be wrong here, but was it in Sefton Park, Liverpool?

User avatar for trevor_horn Guardian contributor

You're asking the wrong person!


Saf45K
asks:

Were you aware how influential Art of Noise’s track Beatbox was in hip-hop, and what can you tell us about Anne Dudley’s wonderful piano outro?

User avatar for trevor_horn Guardian contributor

I coined the term "beatbox", and yes I was aware because I met Afrika Bambaata in 1981, 1982 in New York and had a long conversation with him. He told me his favourite band at the time was the Guess Who, because they turned into Bachman Turner Overdrive. They had that big tune, American Woman. And when he told me that was his favourite band – it didn't strike me as the kind of band he would like. He said, "I don't like the songs but I have a live album and the drum breaks are great." So I thought, of course – when I heard the drum beat for Beatbox, I knew that Afrika would love it. So yes, I was aware.

Anne Dudley – Anne is an absolutely brilliant piano player. I used to say to her, "Play some piano", and that's probably exactly what she did.

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Buzzaboom asks:

Did you realise that Art of Noise were so ground breaking at the time? I can’t imagine many people being in a studio and thinking ‘this literally hasn’t existed before’.

User avatar for trevor_horn Guardian contributor

Yes, I did think that AON were wildly groundbreaking at the time because I could see what people around me were trying to do with the same bits and pieces, only I had a great big box load of them because I'd been around the world with Malcolm McLaren, so I had samples from Nashville, Cuba, South Africa.

Brian Capaloff asks:

I can recall getting a front row seat for Yes many years ago, at the Rainbow, with Geoff Downes and you having just taken over the vocal and keyboard reins. How did that period feel for you, bearing in mind the nature of the audience and the music, which was vastly different from Video Killed the Radio Star (a rendition of which was given at the gig!).

User avatar for trevor_horn Guardian contributor

I remember the Rainbow, that was Finsbury Park, wasn't it? I remember that show. My mother-in-law, who's still alive, and is 96, came to that concert. She was obviously a lot younger then. She's a big Nat King Cole fan. So I said, being silly, "Here's a song for my mother-in-law, special request, we're going to play a Nat King Cole medley – Starship Trooper!" That period – I just did my best.


Saf45K
asks:

Whose idea was it to release remixes of FGTH’s Two Tribe? Were you surprised it was at No 1 for 9 weeks? How did you spend the cash?

User avatar for trevor_horn Guardian contributor

The record label! We'd done so well with 12-ins of Relax that I felt that the 12-in of Two Tribes was almost more important than the single. And I only actually delivered Two Tribes when I mixed the first 12-in because then I felt confident that we had something worthwhile to put out. I wasn't surprised that it went to No 1, but I wasn't expecting it to be there for nine weeks. Cash – it doesn't work like that. I probably owed the bank millions and the royalties don't come through for a few years. There was no big cash spend. People get this idea that you get loads of money – they don't know what it takes to get yourself there.


concerndium asks:

You were groundbreaking with your use of samplers, but synth-wise, what direction do you lean, East or West coast?

User avatar for trevor_horn Guardian contributor

Stevewebster60 asks:

What was it like to work with Lol Creme of 10cc. Is he as talented as I think he is?

User avatar for trevor_horn Guardian contributor

Yes, he is. Lol's a brilliant painter. I have lots of his pictures in my house. He's a lovely guitar player. I've always liked working with Lol, ever since we met back in... god knows when. 1983? If you listen back to some of those 10cc records, they all worked on the production, but Lol had the idea for how they did I'm Not in Love, and in the late 70s that was my holy grail of record production.


jimble675 asks:

What was the inspiration behind the “Love, coupled with a minced pie” lyric as spoken by Arnold Rimmer on War off of Welcome to the Pleasuredome? Ever since, I’ve always thought the world’s problems could be solved with mince pies, but, to be frank, the lack of a more liquid-based accompaniment to this vision of Xanadu has left me scratching my head...

User avatar for trevor_horn Guardian contributor

I'm afraid you've got that wrong – it's "love, coupled with immense pride". It sounds so funny because it's Ronald Reagan saying it. What was the inspiration behind that? I think you might find a lot of that stuff that was on War was basically stuff that Paul Morley gave me. When I went in to do the 12-in I said I needed some spoken word stuff. I always used to get professional actors to say the lyrics. All that stuff on War, I discovered afterwards, was from Mein Kampf. Which shocked me a bit! But Paul was always doing that kind of thing. I said, "Man, I don't know if I agree with it, where's it from?!"

regularjoe65 asks:

Which albums that you’ve worked on do you have the fondest memories of & which ones do you think have aged the best?

User avatar for trevor_horn Guardian contributor

As time passes you kind of block out all the bad bits, if you're still going anyway. You forget the bad stuff and just think of the good stuff. I had some great times working with Seal. I think his first album still stands up, it's a really good album. I think the Frankie stuff has aged really well - nothing's ever sounded like it since, and that's down to Steve Lipton who mixed Frankie, I think in some ways the best mixing anyone ever did. Incidentally Steve just engineered most of the music on the new Lion King film.

Daz Dazzy Dazzo Noyce asks:

ZTT created an “experience” and “eco-system” long before those marketing folk coined these terms. Who gets the credit for this? And why has the model not been repeated since?

User avatar for trevor_horn Guardian contributor

Paul Morley should get the credit for that. It was his idea to have a whole philosophy for the label. He thought of the name as well. Why hasn't it been repeated? Well it probably has, but it hasn't broken its first three acts in the first year. People start labels all the time.

SirGodfreyMutton asks:

Did you learn much from Yes or Eddie Offord. If you did, in what ways?

User avatar for trevor_horn Guardian contributor

I didn't really learn much from Eddie that I hadn't already learned because I really loved the way Eddie made Yes sound. I think that if I learned anything from Yes, it was a totally different kind of pacing. Up to the time I worked with Yes, I was a pop star. I played pop music. I wasn't a rock guy or a blues guy or anything like that. Yes had a totally different idea of pacing. Their songs were much longer, everything was longer. I learned a lot from Chris Squire about harmony.

Comeagain asks:

ZTT are claimed to have been an over zealous record label, intent on controlling groups as opposed to nurturing them? Labels such as Mute have always had an approach of supporting the artist/group develop, would Trevor say that ZTT had a similar approach and contest what many groups have said?

User avatar for trevor_horn Guardian contributor

Well... Mute is really a one-off. It's the only record label like it. ZTT was very different because we signed three acts and in that first year we broke all three acts. Did all the development and broke them in a year. But we were in a difficult situation because we were going through Island which was going through EMI, so we couldn't offer artists a deal that a proper major could offer them. You try having the hottest act around when you're a tiny subsidiary of Island and see how long you last. Propaganda only made one record on ZTT, the second was Virgin, so we couldn't really be blamed for that. Frankie's second album was always going to be difficult, like it is for any group after your first album. Best thing is to just do it and get onto the third.

watlington asks:

I liked your idea of using tiny transistor radio speakers to sort out mixes and have used it ever since I heard you waxing about the “if it sounds good on these it’ll sound amazing on something decent” mantra. A couple of beat up Binatone speakers, then on to the Yamaha monitors, and it’s spot-on every time. Do you still work that way?

User avatar for trevor_horn Guardian contributor

Yes, I use small speakers a lot of the time to spare my ears. Big speakers are still important if you have a lot of actual performances on a record, lots of people playing. Most records these days are made in the same way that, when you buy food in a packet and you add water to it – a lot of records are made like that. You're not actually recording anything. If you're recording, you need big speakers sometimes.

voiceofq asks:

I’d love to know your views on production skills and innovation today given the advances made in technology and the multitude of training opportunities that are more easily accessible. What would you say is the tool or technique that is changing the production game currently and do you have a producer you would recommend as the next “Trevor Horn”? Wishing you all the best in all you do!

User avatar for trevor_horn Guardian contributor

I wonder if people ask Bob Dylan who the next Bob Dylan is and what kind of answer they'd get. Music evolves and there's a lot of good producers around at the moment. Mark Ronson, he knows what he's doing.

timnorfolk asks:

Why did you get Fly From Here deleted in favour of a new version with your voice instead of Benoit David, and will it ever be commercially available?

User avatar for trevor_horn Guardian contributor

It is commercially available! You just have to contact the right website. Why was it deleted – I redid it because the band asked me to. I think they had a difficult experience with Benoit.

bluepuzzle asks:

You pretty much provided the soundtrack to my earlier years and will have influenced my listening habits ever since. So thank you for that!Have you ever met Max Martin? If you were to have a “Producer-off” competition with him by picking one of today’s pop artists, who would you choose to work with?

User avatar for trevor_horn Guardian contributor

I don't care who would win a competition like that! Producing isn't a showboating job, it's trying to get somebody's idea of what makes a good record right. It isn't trying to do the most impressive version of some song with somebody.

Current artist... mostly when I hear bands from England, I feel that. Even when American bands aren't that good, the records sound really good. Whereas over here people can get hung up on an old BBC mentality. But I don't listen to production on records. If someone wants me to work with them, the worst thing they can send me is a well-produced demo – what's there for me to do?

DanWorsley asks:

Malcolm McLaren seemed like a bit of a character. What was your experience working with him like and did it affect the subsequent work you did?

User avatar for trevor_horn Guardian contributor

Malcolm was a very interesting person. Surprisingly kind and not particularly egotistical. Laughed at himself so hard sometimes we all laughed, you know. He took me to places I never dreamt one could go and dropped me in some of the funniest situations I've ever been in in my life – we flew down to Nashville and rented a studio in the middle of nowhere that normally specialised in gospel records. They had a pressing plant out the back. Malcolm had hired a choir called the Hilltoppers. There was eight of them, they turned up in a purple van, they looked a bit like something from Deliverance. I set them up and we put the mics up in the air, we were trying to record Buffalo Gals and they were awful, absolutely awful. Malcolm came to me and said, they're awful, get rid of them! So I had to pretend to record them, then I gave them $70. They were really happy. That wasn't something I would enjoy! Things like - we went to Harlem in 1982, you practically needed an armoured car. We went to see a Cuban guy - that was something else. He gave us some cigarettes to smoke and we barely made it out. Those were the kind of things. I became very fond of him.

User avatar for trevor_horn Guardian contributor

Subsequent work - I did a whole load of crazy stuff after Malcolm because I'd been to NYC and seen what was going on, and realised we were ahead. I came back and Art of Noise did the first ever digital drum loop in the world. No one did it before us. So yes, it impacted because of the knowledge that I gained from going to all those places.

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Nidoc101 asks:

Dear Trevor, almost four decades on would you conclude that video really did kill the radio star?

User avatar for trevor_horn Guardian contributor

No! Video did not kill the radio star. Maybe he had him down for a couple of minutes but he came back up again swinging and he's still healthy.

SamandAmysDad asks:

Dear Catastrophe Waitress is unquestionably the best Belle & Sebastian album, largely due to the fantastic production. How did this seemingly unusual combination come about and were you pleased with the results?

User avatar for trevor_horn Guardian contributor

I wouldn't necessarily agree, but thank you. My PA in Los Angeles had a part-time job doing the dressing rooms for the Coachella festival. Her name is Marianne. And she met Belle and Sebastian because they were playing at Coachella. When she told them that she worked for me, they were interested in what I was like. I think they had no idea what somebody like me was like. And she obviously gave me a good report because the next thing was, I went to meet them in Scotland and I heard all of the songs for DCW. I had heard Belle and Sebastian quite a lot because my eldest daughter was a big fan. I loved one of their songs, Stars of Track and Field. When I met them we all seemed to like each other so we did a dummy run on the album up in Glasgow, recording the whole album in a day, straight into the computer. I wanted to get a feeling for what it would be like. I really enjoyed making that record, and I do think it came out really well - people always associate me with big whizz-bangy things, but actually that was a completely different kind of job. More like old-style record production - they liked take #15 and I liked take #9. And they're lovely people.

SpecialOrder937 asks:

I have a two-part question in respect of vinyl.

For me the Two Tribes 12in singles versions defined the 12in era, and the format opened up creative possibilities for many songs. But did you find the LP format limiting in those days, compared to what can be achieved today? And (this part two of the question) the LP has regained popularity in recent years. What do you make of the resurgence?

User avatar for trevor_horn Guardian contributor

No, I liked the LP format, I suppose because it's what I grew up with. The idea that you would hear a single and like the single so you might be interested in buying an album by that artist always seemed to make sense to me. The 12-in was a totally different thing because it had a different purpose to an album. It was meant to be danced to. Albums aren't necessarily meant to be danced to – they're generally meant to be listened to unless you're somebody who likes to listen to dance albums.

The LP resurgence – sometimes it seems to me that everything's having a resurgence. When they talk about resurgence, it's just a little bit – what percentage of records sold these days are vinyl? So everything's got a shot, really. I'm happy if it's having a resurgence.

Flingo asks:

I had Lexicon of Love and the Frankie blockbusters with all the big production sound, but I have to say I would put little old Back of My Hand by the Jags ahead of them. What was it you could do for ABC and Frankie you couldn’t do for the Jags?

User avatar for trevor_horn Guardian contributor

The idea that the Jags had was very different to the idea that ABC and Frankie Goes to Hollywood had. They didn't actually like my version of Back of My Hand. It was the first time that I realised that there were no absolutes in taste.

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Computers have not ruined music

midnightrambler1971 asks:

As an early advocate of modern recording technology, is it finally time to admit that computers have actually ruined music?

User avatar for trevor_horn Guardian contributor

Have cars ruined the streets? Have computers ruined our lives? It depends how you look at it really, doesn't it. It's important to remember that computers are just a means to an end. They themselves don't actually make music, any more than a guitar amplifier can play guitar without a guitar player. So you can't blame them. I think programming music in a computer is as much of a skill in its own way as playing a musical instrument. I know that my son can produce a whole record on a computer with it on his lap. But I can't. I suppose I could. No! I do not admit that computers have ruined music.

Manamind asks:

Trevor, is Machine Messiah still one of your favourite tracks and how was it producing Jon [Anderson] in 90125 after Drama? Was there any drama?

User avatar for trevor_horn Guardian contributor

Machine Messiah has never been one of my favourite tracks! But I enjoyed recording it and I think the band played brilliantly on it. How was it producing Jon? Was there any drama? Nothing that I could write about. Jon's got a great voice and he did a really good job on 90125.

fannybygastropub asks:

What kind of music do you relax to? And if you could travel back in time which artists would you have liked to work with?

User avatar for trevor_horn Guardian contributor

I tend to listen to old records like Bing Crosby and Frank Sinatra. But I really also like synthesiser music – I really like Tomita. And travelling back in time – Dean Martin. He could have done with a good producer.

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richgart asks:

You said that you were attracted to tracks for the lyrics in selecting for the 80s album, who is your favourite lyricist and what is your favourite lyric?

User avatar for trevor_horn Guardian contributor

My favourite lyricist is Joni Mitchell, and my favourite lyric is Edith and the Kingpin, from the album Hissing of Summer Lawns. I can't pick a line - it's all brilliant. "Women he has taken grow old too soon / He tilts their tired faces gently to the spoon."

Scott McLennan asks:

Given Prodigy’s Firestarter samples Art Of Noise, have you ever discussed your differing styles of production with Liam Howlett? What were your initial thoughts when you first heard Firestarter in 1996?

User avatar for trevor_horn Guardian contributor

I don't think I ever discussed production with him. I don't think Liam thinks about production in the way that I think about it - he's an artist who writes music and does it all himself. So no, we never did. What were my thoughts on Firestarter? I thought it was mad but really good. It reminded me of a punk Art of Noise. And Liam is a lovely fella.

Scott adds:

You stepped back in as Seal’s producer for Seal IV after his proposed 2001 album Togetherland was scrapped. What is the greatest recording you’ve been involved with that has never seen the light of day?

User avatar for trevor_horn Guardian contributor

I suppose it would be a South African tenor called Siphiwo Ntshebe - he was Nelson Mandela's tenor. I did half an album with him and then he died of meningitis. I don't think anybody wanted to release it after he died because there was no artist to promote it.

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Here we go

Post your questions now!

He’s credited as the man who invented the 80s – or at least its sound, thanks to his early acquisition of a Fairlight sampler and a LinnDrum machine. Whoever else might lay claim to that title, Trevor Horn certainly predicted pop’s most visual era as half of the Buggles, with their massive 1979 hit Video Killed the Radio Star, and then capitalised on it in the decade to come. He collaborated with that great pop showman, Malcolm McLaren, cofounded the ZTT label and brought the world Frankie Goes to Hollywood, with their indelible imagery and pristine knack for controversy.

His work that decade is a murderers’ row of hits: ABC’s The Look of Love, Grace Jones’s Slave to the Rhythm, Godley & Creme’s Cry, Pet Shop Boys’ Left to My Own Devices. He might as well have been the guy who invented the 90s, too: as part of the Art of Noise from 1983, Horn pioneered the sampling technology that would change the sound and scope of hip-hop in the years to come.

Frankie Goes to Hollywood: Relax – video

His success continued through the 90s – Horn was behind Seal’s eponymous debut album – and into unexpected places in the early 2000s: ersatz Russian lesbians tATu’s English market debut, 200km/h in the Wrong Lane, contains three Horn productions, and is an underrated millennium-era classic.

For better or worse (probably for better, to be fair), Lena Katina and Julia Volkova don’t appear on Horn’s most recent album, Trevor Horn Reimagines the Eighties, which employs Robbie Williams, Gabrielle Aplin, All Saints and Seal, among others, to do, well, exactly what it says on the tin. That’s the album Horn is touring this month – starting at Glasgow Royal Concert Hall on 27 July – and the occasion for his visit to Guardian HQ, where he will be taking your questions from 12 noon BST on Tuesday 23 July. Post your enquiries below!

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